Steph: Welcome back to another edition of Bold Blind Beauty On A.I.R. Podcast. The show that's clearing the air for more A.I.R., (Access, Inclusion, and Representation.) I'm Stephanae McCoy. And with me are my co-hosts...
Nasreen: I'm Nasreen Bhutta,
Sylvia: Sylvia Stinson-Perez,
Dana: and I'm Dana Hinnant.
Steph: As people who are blind, when living with a disability, illness, or any life challenge, it's common to have to explain it to others and advocate for yourself and your community. While kindness and patience are important, you also need to assert yourself when someone oversteps boundaries. It's worth learning to laugh at the absurd things that people say or do and equip yourself with knowledge and a good sense of humor.
Changing people's attitudes can occur gradually, one person at a time. Blindness or visual impairment is a prevalent condition and a vast spectrum that affects millions globally. For those with poor eyesight, and who require more than just glasses, vision can vary and deteriorate over time. This can be frustrating for us and perplexing for those around us when our sight and abilities fluctuate on a daily basis.
On today's show, we're going to bust some myths about blindness and visual impairment. So let's get right into it.
Dana: People assume those with vision loss automatically have a heightened awareness of other senses. This is not a true statement. It takes a lot of work and a lot of time to develop our other senses. What are the senses that you feel that have developed over time?
Nasreen: For me, I would have to say the sense of smell is one sense that I have learned to use more effectively.
I feel that all things have a smell of some sort or another. Whether it be leather, now that's one of my favorite smells, is to go into a store, or if I'm walking by, actually, like in the mall, and there's a store nearby. If I smell leather, I know there are leather goods in there. Whether it's a couch, a belt, a purse, or shoes, like it just, I get excited.
I'm like, Oh, there's leather in there. So that's just one example. Other can be like toothpaste, the minty smell versus the cinnamon smell versus coffee. You know, the smell of coffee versus the smell of teas. If something's not labeled correctly, I'll definitely smell to see what this is.
Even spices such as garlic or oregano. Sometimes the bottles are identical, but it's hard to tell. So I just flip the lids and have a nice smell and oh, this is garlic or this is oregano. It's just use your senses to kind of figure out, you know, what it is that you have. Steph?
Steph: Thanks, Nasreen. That's a great answer, the sense of smell.
For me, I would have to say that my intuition is keener than it was before I lost my sight. I've had to learn that since I cannot trust my residual sight, that I'm more deeply perceptive of my surroundings. And this is especially true when I'm anywhere outside of my home.
So when I walk my dog, Woody, for example, he will growl or outright bark. Letting me know that there is a person or an animal, something's happening in my environment. But I'm learning to trust my dog. Since I can't use my white cane when I'm walking him, he's the one thing that I rely on.
So when I'm anywhere else outside of my home without the dog, I use my white cane. And what I've learned is that I don't have to see beyond that white cane from where that cane touches the ground. I don't have to, all I have to do is just trust that it's going to tell me if there are any barriers or drop-offs or anything in my path. Sylvia, how about you?
Sylvia: Well, Steph, I love this myth because this happens to me all the time. People go, Oh, your senses must be so much better and your hearing must be so much better. Yeah, I wish I were this superhero person, but not. And you mentioned that you have to develop these things, it takes work it takes time as Dana said.
So I have been visually impaired my whole life and gradually losing sight. And so I think 1 of the senses that I have truly developed is the sense of hearing. And I'm going to also add a little bit on the touch part.
On the hearing, I kind of go with echolocation and I don't really know that I'm an expert in echolocation, but I know that if I'm walking and I think this just is a holistic kind of a thing, and I'll give an example. If I'm walking, I'm very aware of, and this is a developed skill, very aware of the ground under my feet, the things around me. If I'm approaching, for instance, a building and there's a wall, I can tell that wall is there probably several feet out because the space around you changes.
And so a good example was a few couple of years ago, I was walking in a space in a new work environment. I'd probably work there a few months. One day, one of my coworkers said to me, I noticed that you walk through this office and automatically when you get to this space, you turn. And it was the route to the front door and to the ladies' room. So it was a route I traveled frequently throughout the day. And once you know an environment that was small enough, you might not use your cane and so I didn't use my cane. I didn't touch the wall, but I would go and follow this route and go.
And so my coworker says, how are you doing that without any kind of cues? So I literally said, I don't know, let me back up and do it again. And what I realized was that the floor changed levels. When I got to the end of the hall where I needed to change, there was a slight decline in the floor that my feet had figured out and my brain had figured out and I never thought about it.
So those kinds of skills are things that you can develop either consciously or subconsciously over time and can be super helpful. But listening to your environment, and knowing what's going on around you really is important.
Like, if you're walking towards a street, hearing the traffic when you're crossing the street. You are responsible for crossing that street, so you've got to pay attention to how the traffic is flowing so you can cross safely. So I think those are mine. Dana, what about you? Are you a superhero Dana? I know you are.
Dana: No, I am not a superhero. Like you said, the skills that the senses develop over time. And one of the things that I had to develop is a sense of touch. Because I was an esthetician and a clinician, I couldn't necessarily rely on my eyes totally when I did skin analysis. And I had to learn how to train my hands so I could identify skin conditions, skin situations, pimples versus a mole. Just identifying certain things that were going on with the skin.
I had a mag lamp, but I didn't use it like everybody else did. I really had to rely on my hands to train myself and to detect skin issues. And I would get tested on this by certain clients who knew that I was visually impaired. (Not all my clients knew that), by going to my manager and my manager was a medical esthetician and they would call her in the room and it was like, this is what she said is going on with my skin. And she would take a look with the mag lamp. And she said she told you, right.
So I must say that did develop over time. That's not something that I had initially, because I'm not a braille person. And I find myself when it comes to, like, clothing in my life now, since my sight has shifted more, I might touch fabrics. I can see it, but I like to touch it just to get a feel of it, is this going to feel really good against my skin? Do I really want this? So that's something that I think that I had to develop as my sight changed over time. Because I'm like you, Sylvia. I've been dealing with this all my life, but things shifted and changed.
Nasreen: Another myth out there that people think is that blind people are not able to use computers or technology very well. The reality here is that much of the information out there is visual. Fortunately, some great assistive technology devices such as screen readers, and magnifiers, are now available and are incredibly helpful. And at least when companies make their sites and images accessible for everyone to read, that's very important. So ladies, what type of technology do you guys use? Dana?
Dana: Well, I use a screen reader on a laptop. On my phone, I use text-to-speech. It's not full talk back because I'm using what residual sight I have. And that, and I use like a lot of audio wherever I can get audio where I don't have to actually read something I take advantage of that.
Steph: Thanks, Dana. My cell phone, number one, is my favorite tool, I use it for nearly everything. Similar to you, Dana I use a high-contrast keyboard on my cell phone, and verbal feedback when typing. So it tells me exactly what I'm typing out. I use magnification. I also use the select to speak feature, which allows me to select a string of text and it'll read it back to me. Contrast, font, and display are adjusted to my level of remaining sight.
Likewise, on my laptop, I use a huge colored mouse pointer. I use magnification and rarely do I use a Windows screen reader. That's only if there's a whole lot of text to read, because with the magnification you can do so many things and you can, you know, practically magnify up to like one letter at a time. And I really don't need it that high, but some people do.
For low tech though, I, use fluorescent bump dots and puff paint on my appliances. Audio description is very beneficial when I'm streaming some of my favorite TV shows and movies. Also, when I go to the movies, I use audio description headsets and devices so that I can know what's happening on the screen. So those are just some of the things that I use technology-wise.
Nasreen, how about you?
Nasreen: Those are some great aids there, Steph. For me, I use voiceover a lot. I'm a screen reader technology user, voiceover on my iDevices. I also use OCR technology to read and print documents, in software mode, you can get OCR software that can be implemented into your computer, as well as standalone OCR machines that can read paper and documents without having to use, a laptop or PC device attached to it.
So I really enjoy those. Sylvia.
Sylvia: Awesome. Well, I have used some combination of almost everything you ladies have shared over the years but now with just light perception left, I am solely reliable on text to text-to-speech kind of software, which Nasreen is using.
The two things that I use that you did not mention and I know that all of you probably use smart devices like Alexa and Google. I love mine to ask things like, for recipes, et cetera, all the time. And the other thing, I do read braille. I learned braille as an adult and I use braille all the time and find it really helpful for labeling, for making presentations et cetera. So I think it's a really great thing.
But just to kind of wrap this question up. I mean, people do think like, how do you do anything when you can't see and they're always like, oh, wow. But when you can say to someone, this is the built-in. Like, from the ground up, provided by a company, and the company has made this accessible. That's powerful.
It's another learning curve. All of this technology takes work to learn. And honestly, a lot of work. And I would just add that there's a lot of research out there that shows assistive technology users who are really good are actually faster on the computer, etc.
Nasreen: Dana, over to you.
Dana: People have the misconception that blind people don't work or they only work with the blind and visually impaired. That is not true. Blind and visually impaired people are represented in some kind of way in every industry. As long as we have the training, the technology, the skills, and the support that we need in order to do our job effectively. What job or occupation that a blind person is doing out there that you love that is fascinating to you guys?
Nasreen: That's a great question. Dana, I've been fortunate to work in various roles over the last eight years. I have been in the HR and business partnership role, a workforce developer, and trainer, I've been a trainer for the recruiting and sourcing program. I have done some sales and demo work and I do a lot of AT testing on a usability level with different organizations .
I've done a lot of project management, a lot of entrepreneurial work, which has a lot of social or business impact to it. And I co-host with the lovely Sylvia here, a public speaking program, and I've gained a lot of varied learned experiences over the years. Sylvia,?
Sylvia: I have been really fortunate to spend my career working in the blindness field. I honestly wish that more people who are blind would embrace the blindness field.
I have had amazing opportunities, I've had a great career, I've earned a great income, and I've been in some very significant leadership roles in my career. And so I beg more people who are visually impaired to come to this blindness field and not, just as rehab teachers or as the CEO, but in finance, in fundraising, in human resources and IT, and every position they exist in this blindness field.
When I think about what are the coolest jobs, because I, I know a lot of people who are blind and who do a lot of really cool things. So some of the really cool, blind chefs, I know someone who was blind, who worked as a meteorologist and actually flew in the Hurricane Hunter plane prior to losing significant vision. Someone who ran all of the IT in a... huge international airport who was totally blind with the right accommodations and skills. Honestly, there are very, very, very, very few jobs that someone who's blind can't do. Steph.
Steph: Thank you, Sylvia. I was losing my sight when I was the regional lead project coordinator at one of the Big Four accounting firms. In my role, I served as a point of contact for customers across the U. S. and India regarding projects, processes, scheduling, and issue resolution. I ensured that the regional coordination team followed and adhered to our national procedures. I also worked very closely with other national professionals to share leading practices and implement new procedures and technology across the company.
After my retirement, I was happy to be able to focus on my advocacy and volunteer activities that mean so much to me. Some of these included serving as a board member for Blind and Vision Rehabilitation Services of Pittsburgh. I chaired the publicity committee for the PA Council of the Blind. And then of course I became the founder of Bold Blind Beauty among other things.
But when I think about what amazing things other blind people are doing, what really amazes me are some of the adventurers. Like the gentlemen that we featured on the podcast last year that did the Iron Man. You know, I couldn't do those things when I could see. So knowing that there are people who are blind that are out there, taking on some of these really adventurous tasks is just amazing to me. I just love it. Dana, how about you?
Dana: Wow. All the things that you all have said, I would have to agree with. Because I went into the beauty industry and there's a lot to do in the beauty industry than just being behind the chair. A lot of people don't look at it in that way. Cause I think I've done everything except doing straight retail. And then starting to work with organizations that deal with the blind and visually impaired and other disabilities along the way. And just meeting amazing people that just continue on to work whatever field that they're in.
I think just being motivated to continue on to thrive and live their lives and have a fulfilling career. And we've met a lot of people through this platform that are doing that. So yeah, it's amazing.
Sylvia: And, Dana, I think that it's very cool that you're an esthetician, by the way, you know, that's cool.
Steph: You know, there are a few other myths that we as people who are on the blindness spectrum, think they're hilarious and we wanted to share a few of them with you. The one that comes to mind when I was thinking about this one for me is the assumption that I must have my own personal glam squad.
When people see me because, you know, I'm out sporting my white cane and I'm, trying to look, you know fabulous. So I've had people actually get up in my face and this is like a boundary you should not cross. But because they want to see closer who does your eyeliner, you know, it's like, I wish I did have a glam squad, but I don't have it like that.
And I, I'd like to know what you ladies think. And can you think of any other myths that you think are funny?
Sylvia: Well, I, really do think we all get this one about who does your makeup? Who does your hair? Who dresses you? I mean, come on. And, we're all doing it ourselves. Now, when I want to look super glamorous, just like any other woman, I go out and get my hair and makeup done. But on a daily basis, we're doing our own hair and makeup, and we learn techniques to do it.
So Steph, another one that I would bring up is people often assume that I must know every other blind person in the world. I was literally in the airport one time and this person came up to me and said, You know, I know this guy named Tom in Germany who's blind. Do you know him? I know every other blind person in the world.
Now I'm going to tell you, sometimes if someone says that they know someone and I happen to know them because I do know a lot of people, I'll just lie and say no I don't because I don't want to perpetuate their myth that we all know every blind person. Now, we're fortunate that we do, some of us know a lot of people who are blind and we're just fortunate to have that, connection with each other because I think that's powerful.
Dana: Here's one that I want to bring up, and I know you all have some opinions about this one, is people assume that if you're blind, not even just blind, you have a disability, that you just, because you're blind because we're talking about blind myths, They just assume that you don't have a brain. So, like, you can't process information and be smart and intelligent because you're blind.
And that's not true. We're just like everybody else. We just have to do things in a different way. And it's not true that we don't have common sense. If you don't have common sense that's not necessarily a blind thing that's a person thing. So, you know, certain things are not Indicative because you're blind, but I just, it just blows my mind when people think that because you're blind, you don't have a brain.
Nasreen: The other thing I noticed is sometimes they think blind people cannot use cutlery and their table manners are, not to be desired, but on the contrary, that's not the case. I think we can only use cutlery to some degree, and we won't stab ourselves with a fork, or cut ourselves with a knife.
A couple of years ago, I was traveling, and I was staying with some people overseas. And every morning, the lady would cut up my fruit for me, and before giving me my breakfast, I would have fruit. And one day, I said to her is it possible you can give me the knife so I can cut my own fruit?
And she said no to me and I asked her why and she said I just don't want you cutting your finger or anything like that. So at first, I let it go. I thought, okay, well I'm not going to argue with her because I'm in her home. So when an opportunity came that she was not able to cut my fruit and the knife was there, I grabbed the knife and I started cutting my apple or whatever fruit it was at the time.
She happened to come running out of the kitchen door to watch and she saw that my fingers were intact. She saw that I was cutting the fruit like I was supposed to cut it and then I put the knife down and then I started eating it. I looked up at her and smiled and she just looked at me. And I tell you that was great because the next morning at breakfast she brought my plate with the knife and my washed fruit and said here you go cut it yourself.
And I said, thank you. That's what I wanted to do in the beginning, but you said no to me.
Sylvia: You know, I want to go back to something Steph said. There is a tendency by people to ask us much more personal questions than they would ever find acceptable to be asked them. And that is very offensive. You cannot ask me personal questions.
Sometimes I'll be willing to answer things, but I'm not always willing to answer questions that are not people's business, and that assumption that because I have a disability, my life is an open book to the world is a myth.
Dana: Etiquette comes into play with that. You just have to use etiquette and decorum.
You got to show people respect and put yourself in that person's shoes. You wouldn't feel comfortable necessarily answering a personal question. So why would you expect another person, to feel the same way? So be mindful to respect people's boundaries and have some etiquette and decorum when you approach.
And I think too, our disability has been perpetrated in a negative way. Being like a blind beggar on the street. Or... Being somebody that swindles people, you know, you've seen it in sitcoms, and that's like a very negative depiction of those of us who are blind and visually impaired. So sometimes I think we get depicted in a negative way based on what somebody's seen on television or even somebody how they behaved and acted in person.
I've seen people who are very rude, who are blind. And when somebody just kindly asks them if they need assistance, they chew their head off and that's like a misrepresentation. Okay, there's a way to say things that if you need help, you'll let somebody know, but it's no need to bite somebody's head off for it. Because they may encounter somebody else who's blind and visually impaired and they might hesitate to go up to that person to engage that person. Because of the experience that they had with that 1 person.
Steph: That's a good point, Dana. I think what it all boils down to, as you had said in your earlier statement, is respect, but it also comes down to just valuing people.
I think, sometimes we can have a tendency to look at people on a hierarchy. Aside from race and those things that might set us apart or even economic status, education, and all those kinds of things. But when you throw in disabilities, it's like an added layer. And when it gets right down to it, we as humans, are like an onion. We are, we are full of many, many layers, and not any two of us, we're not the same, we all react differently. And if we can just remember that, and remember our joint humanity, that can only make us better. We can all do better, all of us.
Dana: And we're still learning too, as we go through the blindness journey, whether we've been blind all our lives, acquired sight loss in later life, we're all learning through this process.
And because we're learning how to navigate life through blindness. Yes.
Sylvia: And I think we're, we're all trying to maintain a sense of humor, but I think also trying to gain self-respect and that means we also need respect from the community around us.
Nasreen: And I would have to just say that I think blindness, our journey changes Dana. I think as you mentioned journey with each stage of life or each decade of our lives, it all changes. There are always new things that we need to learn, or have learned from others, or wisdom that we gain, or insights that we find about our sight loss as we move into different stages of our lives.
Sylvia: The other thing I would say is that if someone has a thought, a myth, about blindness, seek out someone who's blind and ask them. You know, is this true? How do you do this? Because most of us want to share with people how we do things. We just don't want to share it while we're trying to cross a street in the middle of somewhere or have you in our faces asking us.
So, in a respectful way, we're very open to demystifying some of the thinking that's out there.
Nasreen: Thanks for listening to Bold Blind Beauty On A.I.R. With your host, Stephanae McCoy, Nasreen Bhutta, Sylvia Stinson Perez, and Dana Hinnant. If you enjoyed this episode and would like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post it on your socials, or leave a rating and review. To catch all the latest from Bold Blind Beauty you can follow us on Instagram, and Facebook, and check out our YouTube channel at Bold Blind Beauty. Thanks again for listening and we will see you next time on another edition of Bold Blind Beauty On A.I.R.
