Episode title and number: Love Beyond Sight Featuring Kiran Kaja 4-#2
Summary of the show: In this episode of Bold Blind Beauty On A.I.R., hosts Stephanae McCoy, Dana Hinnant, Nasreen Bhutta, and Sylvia Stinson-Perez have a thought-provoking conversation with Kiran Kaja about his experiences dating as a congenitally blind man. He shares interesting insights into utilizing dating apps without visual cues and debunks societal misconceptions about blindness and dating. He also provides valuable advice and tips for other visually impaired individuals navigating the dating scene. This episode offers an opportunity to challenge stereotypes, encouraging greater understanding, empathy, and inclusivity.
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Bullet points of key topics & timestamps:
00:06 | Introduction and Episode Overview
02:23 | Meet the Guest: Kiran Kaja
05:38 | Navigating the World of Dating Apps
11:09 | Bold Blind Beauty On A.I.R. Podcast Promotion
12:04 | Addressing Stereotypes and Misconceptions
15:09 | Building Connections and Communication Strategies
20:38 | Dana's Beauty Byte
22:40 | Advice for Visually Impaired Individuals in the Dating Scene
26:33 | Connecting with Kiran Kaja
28:05 | Closing Remarks and Episode Wrap-up
Bio: Kiran is a blind tech professional working as a Principal Product Manager at Amazon. He lives in Berkeley, California with his 2-year-old golden retriever Seeing Eye dog who is coincidentally named India. He grew up in India but travelled to over 50 countries and lived in the UK and the US in his career. In his free time, Kiran likes to hike, go on tandem bike rides, and work on his model railroad layout.
Connect with Bold Blind Beauty to learn more about our advocacy:
Music Credit: "Ambient Uplifting Harmonic Happy" By Panda-x-music https://audiojungle.net/item/ambient-uplifting-harmonic-happy/46309958
Thanks for listening!❤️
Episode title and number: Love Beyond Sight Featuring Kiran Kaja 4-#2
Summary of the show: In this episode of Bold Blind Beauty On A.I.R., hosts Stephanae McCoy, Dana Hinnant, Nasreen Bhutta, and Sylvia Stinson-Perez have a thought-provoking conversation with Kiran Kaja about his experiences dating as a congenitally blind man. He shares interesting insights into utilizing dating apps without visual cues and debunks societal misconceptions about blindness and dating. He also provides valuable advice and tips for other visually impaired individuals navigating the dating scene. This episode offers an opportunity to challenge stereotypes, encouraging greater understanding, empathy, and inclusivity.
Supporting Our Advocacy Work:
⦁Shop our online store
⦁Join us in advancing our advocacy efforts!
Bullet points of key topics & timestamps:
00:06 | Introduction and Episode Overview
02:23 | Meet the Guest: Kiran Kaja
05:38 | Navigating the World of Dating Apps
11:09 | Bold Blind Beauty On A.I.R. Podcast Promotion
12:04 | Addressing Stereotypes and Misconceptions
15:09 | Building Connections and Communication Strategies
20:38 | Dana's Beauty Byte
22:40 | Advice for Visually Impaired Individuals in the Dating Scene
26:33 | Connecting with Kiran Kaja
28:05 | Closing Remarks and Episode Wrap-up
Bio: Kiran is a blind tech professional working as a Principal Product Manager at Amazon. He lives in Berkeley, California with his 2-year-old golden retriever Seeing Eye dog who is coincidentally named India. He grew up in India but travelled to over 50 countries and lived in the UK and the US in his career. In his free time, Kiran likes to hike, go on tandem bike rides, and work on his model railroad layout.
Connect with Bold Blind Beauty to learn more about our advocacy:
Music Credit: "Ambient Uplifting Harmonic Happy" By Panda-x-music https://audiojungle.net/item/ambient-uplifting-harmonic-happy/46309958
Thanks for listening!❤️
0:06
Welcome back to another edition of Bold Blind Beauty On A.I.R., the show that's clearing the air for more A.I.R.(Access, Inclusion, and Representation). My name is Stephanae McCoy, and with me are my cohosts, I'm Dana Hinnant. I'm Nasreen Bhutta, and this is Sylvia Stinson-Perez.
Steph: 0:32
In this captivating episode of Bold Blind Beauty On A.I.R., the spotlight is on Kiran Kaja offering listeners a glimpse into the world of dating from the perspective of a congenitally blind man. As Valentine's Day approaches, Kiran candidly shares his triumphs and challenges, unraveling the complexities of his journey through the landscape of dating. One focal point of discussion is the exploration of dating apps as Kiran navigates these platforms without the visual cues that often play a significant role in initial connections. By shedding light on his experiences, Kiran not only breaks down societal misconceptions but also underscores the importance of fostering inclusivity within a dating sphere. Throughout the episode, Kiran's narrative dispels preconceived notions surrounding blindness and dating, challenging stereotypes that often marginalize individuals on the blindness spectrum. By sharing his journey, He encourages a reevaluation of societal norms, emphasizing that love and connection transcend physical appearances. This illuminating episode serves as a powerful testament to the capacity of individuals on the blindness spectrum offering a fresh perspective that encourages empathy, understanding, and inclusivity. We're beyond thrilled to have you here, Kiran.
Kiran: 2:05
Hello. Thank you for having me, and I'm really looking forward to talking to you all.
Steph: 2:11
Yes. Thank you so much for joining the conversation. Welcome to the spotlight! I'm gonna hand the mic over to Sylvia.
Sylvia: 2:20
Karin, welcome. So glad to have you on. Before we get to the heart of the matter, no pun intended, tell us a little bit about your blindness journey and any insights you have.
Kiran: 2:35
Nice to meet you, Sylvia, I am Kiran Kaja. I live in Berkeley, California with my, relatively new guide dog from The Seeing Eye. He's a golden retriever, 2 and half year old golden retriever male called India, which is kinda coincidental because I'm actually originally from India. I was born in India. I grew up there for 28 years, then I moved to the UK for work. And then I've been living here in the Bay Area for almost 8 years. And it's kinda funny and coincidental when I went to Seeing Eye for my guide dog, and then they were like, oh, we have a nice guide dog for you, and he's named India. I was like, We are not giving you this dog because of your ethnicity, just FYI. It just happened to be a good match, and they they were right. He's perfect. I have been blind since birth with retinitis pigmentosa. Grew up, in a household that they were very caring and gave me a good education. I learned braille early on and then I discovered that computers can talk to me after high school in 1999, and then that kinda completely changed my life and career trajectory. So I started working in technology I worked at a few companies, SAP Labs, which is, like, business software company, Then at Adobe I was at Google working on accessibility for for search and the Google Assistant for 6 years. I also worked on accessibility of Instagram, that was a short stint. And I am now working as a principal product manager at Amazon in the worldwide stores and books team. I love outdoors. I do tandem cycling quite a bit. Love walking around the East Bay, around Berkeley. Also, I am building a model railroad layout in my spare room. I love trains. I love taking the trains around around the world. And, yeah, that's kinda about me.
Sylvia: 4:52
Very cool. I love that your dog's name is India. I'm in the process of getting a new guide dog, and maybe mine should be, like Southern Belle or something. thank you so much. All that all that tech experience and I love it.
Kiran: 5:11
Yes. Indeed. It was a it was a bit of a surprise but it was a pleasant surprise when I got India. And then the backstory of that is growing up in India, I was afraid of dogs quite a bit Because they have stray dogs on the streets and, they are pretty aggressive.
Nasreen: 5:28
Hi, Karin. I'm Nasreen, and it's great to have you here. I love the name India. And I love to hear more about how your dog is instrumental in your dating adventures. But how has your experience been with dating apps, and what specific challenges and or successes have you encountered as a congenitally blind individual in this digital dating world?
Kiran: 5:55
Oh, how long do we have? So I think it's it has been an interesting journey. I am in my early forties and again, growing up in India, I was, well protected by the family and I was very introverted and shy. So I didn't really talk to girls when I was growing up. But after the Internet and it opened up, there were there were a lot more opportunities for me to communicate with people. And that kind of made me look at dating apps. Now the biggest issue, obviously, with all of these dating apps is that they are heavily photo and picture-based. And most of them don't really Besides the profile part. Now there are some of the other apps that do encourage folks to answer a set of questions. I particularly like Hinge because it kinda forces people to answer a set of questions, and they also have voice prompts so people can kinda record a short voice prompt. And that gives you a kind of sense of a person more than just a picture. And then so I tried pretty much all of them, Tinder, Hinge, Bumble, Coffee Meets Bagel and I've even gone on some rather interesting choices. Like, personals on Reddit, for example, most of them are scammers, don't go there. I tried Facebook dating. I think the biggest challenge is, obviously, most of them are photo picture-based, and there are very few options in the newer app side of things where you get a more textual profile. Some of the older ones like match.com, I believe, have a lot more text, but I haven't had much success on those sites. And so it is kind of a numbers game. You have to try stuff that works for you. For me, in recent times, Hinge has been the 1 that worked quite a bit. It's because, as I said you have to answer at least 3 questions. And so that's been that's been a a good 1 for me to try. In general, the accessibility of the apps is also not great. Well, you could do most of the things. I know that Tinder sometimes claims to be a lot more accessible than it really is but It depends on what you're looking for because Tinder, I found, is mostly people who are not very serious about having a relationship. Some of the other apps like Hinge is a little bit more for people who are more interested in a long-term relationship. So you have to cut you kinda have a set of goals and then then see what works what works best. And, also, don't forget, there's there's the old traditional ways of meeting people, which is like friends of friends who are single. Yeah. I just wanna remind folks of that option too and not just the digital apps. But there are there are techniques that you can use to kind of overcome some of the limitations of the digital apps.
Nasreen: 9:38
Friends is always the great way to go. As someone with a techie background, have you ever thought of perhaps creating a more accessible app for us singles out there who are ready to mingle?
Kiran: 9:51
Good gawd, no. I have ideas about stuff, but I'm not an entrepreneur myself. some apps claim to be, quote unquote accessible, but it never appealed to me. I'm a proponent of mainstream technology being accessible, so it doesn't seem like a good idea to limit ourselves to a smaller pool of users. In dating apps, the numbers do matter. If you have a smaller dating pool, you'll be pretty exhausted pretty quickly. And so you want to be on a platform that has the most number of users. And It's kinda hard to get that unless you're an established app, but I did not think about creating an accessible app. But, you know, it's an idea that someone else could explore. Or we can advocate with these companies and make their apps more inclusive. I think that that's a better way to go, Honestly.
Nasreen: 10:55
I like that. Spread A.I.R.,(Access, Inclusion, and Representation) with these big companies.
Anne: 11:05
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Dana: 12:01
What stereotypes or misconceptions do you encounter while dating as a person who is blind, and how do you address them?
Kiran: 12:12
So the stereotypes and misconceptions, I have noticed, are not too dissimilar to what we face in our daily lives as blind people. People ask some interesting questions. There's a range of responses you get. Some of them just don't even look at your profile in detail, they just, see one picture. Because some of these apps actually if you upload 6 or 7 pictures, they show only one at a time. And so if that's not the picture that has my white cane or guide dog in it. They wouldn't guess. So you start a conversation with them, and pretty soon, it's clear that, like, they haven't read your profile. At that time, it's revealed. And then the responses range from anywhere from, oh, okay, too? How do you take a shower then? And then the way I've always dealt with this is is educate, you know, just how I would do it in a normal life. This is what I can do, and this is what I cannot do. And I've also been asked, like, oh, if you're If you're blind, how do you drive a car? Like, I don't. I take an Uber. Or oh my god. So you you how will you come to to the to the date? Will somebody be coming with you? No. It's only me, and I can get around fine. I've traveled to over 50 countries. So Meeting you at a coffee shop is no trouble at all. And then to like, is somebody using the app for you? It's like, no. I'm using it with my screen reader, and then I show I send them the Tommy Edison YouTube video links where he explains how he uses the phone and the computer, they are usually very funny. And so I thought, like, like, If I have to introduce somebody new to the blindness world, I would rather make it, fun for them so I can point them to Tommy Edison. At that point, about 60 to 70 percent of the matches give up, and then you don't hear from them. The other ones are a little bit more curious. I've also been matched with somebody who has a family member with a disability, and so they are a little bit more aware so that tends to go slightly better. But I say it's it's it's no no different to how you would deal with, misconceptions in a in a regular world.
Steph: 14:51
Thank you for that, Kiran. Tommy Edison is such a great sorta resource to point people to. I think he is hilarious, And I love his videos, so great call on that. My next question is It relates to the absence of visual cues. And so I wanted to know how you navigate communication and build connections With potential partners. Do you have any specific strategies you find particularly effective?
Kiran: 15:26
I have techniques to deal with that which might be slightly controversial. the strategy that I use on dating apps is If I find the the profile text interesting I just Like them, anyone who who I find interesting. And if they reply, I'll have a conversation with them. At that point, I asked one of my sighted friends to describe the physical appearance of the person. I'm not very particular about physical appearance. I just want to know. So it would be helpful to have that bit of sighted help in my case. You could potentially use Be My Eyes volunteers or Aira or even with the new, AI-based descriptions, they do a good job of describing somebody. So, you know, I would use those to kinda get a sense of how they look, etc. Again, it's a it's a matter of it's a matter of choice. The other thing that I also got sighted help with is picking the photos that I want to put on my profile. My friend Aubrey helped me with picking some of my photos, that she thought would be good to put on my profile, and it sort of worked. So, you know, having that sighted helps you get the perspective from their side. So that's a little tip that I used. So that's the way I dealt with my profile and also pictures that I matched the pictures of the people that I matched with. Now how do I deal with going on a date and all of that? I think the way I would do it would be upfront about it. Say you're blind and, if you need them to be aware of something, like, I don't want to go on a first date to a noisy place. So I would be more upfront about it. So for the dating app situation, I would just use some sighted help if you have it. If not, rely on Be My Eyes and Aira volunteers for the dating app side of things.
Sylvia: 17:51
This conversation is making me glad that I don't have to go on dates. I've been married 30 years, and it makes us think back to dating as a person who had low vision, and I had decent experiences. But anyway, it's funny. So, Kiran, with Valentine's Day approaching, do you have any, like, special memories?
Kiran: 18:14
Special memory. So I believe that If you can travel together for a week or so and are not crazy at each other at the end of it, that's a good start to a relationship. And And that's always one of the criteria that I use to kinda like, okay. Am I getting serious with this person? Okay. Let's travel and see how they react or how they cope. So I think one of the most funny and memorable ones was a trip that I took to Seattle a few months ago with the person that I'm seeing right now. And I had no clue that Costco Tourism is a thing. What do I mean by Costco Tourism? Going to Costco stores in other cities when you travel. It's a thing to go to Costco in other cities and check out what special stuff products they have in those cities. And so I was like, I'm not so sure about this. I don't wanna go to Costco when I'm on a nice trip, But it was a lot more fun than I thought. We bought so much stuff that we had to figure out how to carry this back So it also gave me that after a few months now, I was thinking like, If we could shop at Costco together, maybe there is something there. You know? That's a lot of things that a lot of couples who are settled in life do. It's like grocery shopping in Costco and stuff like that. So as I have the first Valentine's Day in my current relationship, I'm like, yeah we had some interesting fun times on our travels. We went to Hawaii after that, and that was great. And so, yeah, I think traveling is one of my favorite things to do with somebody with my partner. So, yeah, if somebody asks me about, like, what do you like most or what's the most interesting date you have? That's like Costco Tourism.
Dana: 20:36
Here are some emerging trends for 2024. Red alert!! Hair color is still red hot. Red is still trending for 2024. All shades of red. If you cannot make a full commitment, you can always do highlights. And, hey, why not try it in a wig? Double Facial Cleansing. This becomes truly important, especially cleansing at night after being out in the environment wearing makeup and when wearing sunscreen. When choosing a cleanser, make sure you have the right ones for your skin without stripping it, and use the appropriate moisturizers afterward. One of the thinnest areas of skin on the body is our under-eye area. If you have not tried an eye cream, there's no time like the present to start. Look for eye creams that have ingredients such as vitamin C, hyaluronic acid, peptide, and retinol for a smoother appearance to the under-eye area. Be sure to use your ring finger, which is the weakest finger on our hand, to pat the cream under your eye area twice a day. And finally, get that lymphatic drainage and dead skin oil with dry brushing. This requires the use of a body brush or a body tool without the use of a product to exfoliate and get the lymphatic moving through your system. It's a form of detoxification but only do this twice a week. And that's your Bold Blind Beauty Byte.
Nasreen: 22:37
Karin, what advice would you give to fellow visually impaired individuals who might be navigating the dating scenes, are there any lessons or tips you wish you had known yourself earlier in your dating journey?
Kiran: 22:54
The biggest thing I'd say, be patient, don't rush it. I've gotten into relationships in the past and regretted them later because, like, oh, that was the kind of the first person who showed interest. Don't do it. Be patient. If you don't feel that connection with that person, don't bother. Just go on because, if you're not patient and you're in a rush like, I need to find a partner in the next 3 months, that is not gonna work. That's not how things work. You should also have a much more clear idea as to what you're looking for. If you don't, that's fine too. Just meet people and figure out what that is. But, once you know what you are looking for, communicate with the other person. The blindness thing is something that you have to deal with. But after that, it comes down to how you communicate with the other person. I think having sighted helps especially if you want to do online dating with with all of these apps. Get your profile correct. Have somebody to take good pictures of you. Sadly, that's how the world works. I don't like it, but that's how it is. but it's good to it's good to have a good profile setup and just be patient. I think that's the biggest thing that I would say is this is not a short-term project. It takes time. And then and the other thing is, like, have fun. enjoy the process and not, like, focus on the outcome. Right? Like, Most of my dates have resulted in friendships, which is something that I value as well. You know, we go do stuff together. And, you know, I I've At least, I think of, like, 5 people that I've met will become my friends now. The other thing that I also do is, like, just don't do this, like, Oh, dating means that you go eat have a meal with somebody or have a drink, figure out activities. I took someone on a date tandem cycling, and that's the second date we had and that was so much fun. And I was like, we'll see how this goes. So I live in Berkeley where there's this, Tandem adaptive cycling club. And they have this side-by-side tandem. So you're not worrying about, like, falling off a bike a traditional bike. So it has, like, 3 wheels, and you can sit next to each other and have a conversation while you're biking around enjoying the scenery. And so, like, try those sort of, like, be inventive. Like, just don't think about, like, oh, I need to go have a coffee. It's a meal. Maybe for the first date, it's fine. After that, think of activities that you like to do and find common things that you like to do with them, and then go try them, and see how they react.
Nasreen: 25:52
Karin, I think that's great advice because a lot of people might be just sticking to those coffee shops and stuff and playing it safe. But getting out, doing activities, showing your date, how versatile you are, and how you can quickly adapt shows the kind of person you are, And as you mentioned, a lot of your dates, or many of them, many ways, turn into friendships. I think that's that speaks volumes, and I think that's a great tip to share with people who are always wondering about the hurdle Of blindness. And how do I get over that? So, Karin, this has been an informative conversation. I love some of the things you've shared, tips and tricks, and lessons learned. People are probably wondering out there by now, how do we get a hold of you? How do we find you?
Kiran: 26:35
I'm on social media. I use Instagram, quite a bit. If you you search for my first name, last name, and then 12, so it's K I R A N K A J A 1 2 that's my Instagram handle. You should be able to find me on Facebook by just typing my name, Kiran Khaja K I R A N K A J A. And I should be there on LinkedIn too. And my email is kirankaja12a@gmail.com. those are the best ways to get in touch with me. I'm happy to offer advice.
Nasreen: 27:20
Brilliant. I think there might be some of our listeners out there going, since he's done it, let us see how maybe we can pick up some further tips and tricks from him. So thank you so much to Karin for coming across Bold Blind Beauty On A.I.R. Today, and sharing your experience with being blind and dating, and all the wonders that go with all of that. So happy to hear that you are in a relationship currently as a result of your hard efforts, and we wish you all the best Thank you so much today for being our distinguished guest. Happy Valentine's Day.
Kiran: 27:53
Thank you very much for having me again, and Happy Valentine's Day to everyone too.
Nasreen: 28:03
Thanks for tuning in to Bold Blind Beauty On A.I.R. today. We hope this episode has left you inspired and empowered. Remember, our journey continues beyond this podcast. Don't miss out on future episodes. Hit that subscribe button and stay up to date on all of our latest discussions. Also, join our vibrant community on Instagram for behind-the-scenes content, stories, and doses of motivation. Your support means the world to us as we strive to Amplify the Diverse Voices and Stories. Together, let's keep advocating for Access, Inclusion, and Representation. Until next time, Stay bold and beautiful.